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KolaniStormynytes wrote:

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Keb, I think Bgheff will back me up on this, you don't use it as a reference. You use it as an insult and a replacement for the other word you can't use anymore. By your logic, you shouldn't be upset if people referred to righties as either "fascists."

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system, and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum. Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.

Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the government and the fascist movement. Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.

I mean, this quote sounds like you: "The march on Rome was a signal, a sign of storm for liberal-democracy. It is the first attempt to destroy the world of the liberal-democratic spirit[...] which started in 1789 with the storm on the Bastille and conquered one country after another in violent revolutionary upheavals, to let... the nations go under in Marxism, democracy, anarchy and class warfare..."

Kolani, wherever you got this definition of fascism, toss it away. Few words got completely stripped of meaning and became mindless labels than Marxist and Fascist.

Look at the history and origins of fascism (Mussolini). It comes directly from socialist movement of early 20th century. When the WWI broke, socialist movement split into anti-war internationalists (Lenin) and pro national government and war supporting nationalists. Mussolini was the latter and eventually developed into fascism.

As for substance, i'd recommend using type of ownership of means of production as the main criteria to determine what is what. (Naturally, this is in part a Marxian methodology, but Marxian method is different from Marxism as an ideology). Both centralized socialism and fascism are founded on government control/ownership of means of production, while communism (the most clear case) boasts full nationalization, socialism allows various degrees of private ownership of means of production. (not to be confused with just private property). Yes, Krupps has not been nationalized in Nazi Germany, but it was totally controlled by the state in terms of production and especially labor relations. If you compare socialism and fascism from this viewpoint, they become exceedingly close. Not only in economic but also in political and social arrangement. Socialism as derived from Marx does advocate a single party system. Western socialism had to play by the democratic rules that preceded its origins, unless it was willing to break these rules and establish a dictatorship - USSR, Germany.

The big supposed dichotomy between fascism and communism is procedural, just like the "dichotomy" between Protestants and Catholics. Both are still fundamentally Judeo-Christian.

The classification of fascism as a right wing (in american coordinates) is completely incorrect, it is a part of the left ideological base. Interestingly, what is called right wing in the US, is called liberal capitalism elsewhere. It is quite cute to read american right wingers and, say, Russian lefties/communists blame "liberals"

I hope this could clear some confusion in nomenclature.

/waves Hi guys!